LBR Breaks Down the Bannings, Part II

As the commenters continue to fiddle while Vana'diel burns, we go back to the panel discussion from Limit Break Radio about the Salvage dupe bannings:

We pick it up at the discussion that Square-Enix clearly knew about the Salvage dupings for quite some time, and why come down so harsh now?

I go back to what DJ Plaeskool said in the comments to Chinchilla's article on PFA: This was retaliation for trying to wrest control of the game illegally from the owners. I've read comment after comment that basically says: "We rule the game, we can hax to haz whatever the Hell we want..."

My genuine hope is that this is the start of a lot of bannings (10,000 would be a good start, given what I've been reading from the cheater community.) to clean up the game.

But Square-Enix knew -- for a long time. All I can suppose is that they didn't realize (or, worse, chose not to realize) how serious this truly was. If that's the case, why do you think WoW is kicking FFXI's ass to the point that Square-Enix now has its lowest Japanese stock price in five years?

The person then goes to the point of calling the Salvage drops unfair.

First (as I've said numerous times): This gives you the right to essentially hack the game? So, the moment you don't like that you got your 1337 kewl Lord-over-everyone-else gear, you can basically hack the game's integrity

Second: Perhaps you need to read this interview (http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=1786): It's an interview that the people who made Salvage had around the end of 2006. Yes, things have changed, but there are legal things within the game that can turn the tide. (Treasure Hunter?)

If you don't like the drop rates (and this even goes to those who fail to get what they want after 100-200 runs -- fucking wah to you), then GO DO SOMETHING ELSE. Leave Salvage.

An interesting side-light came up: There is apparently discussion in BluGartr which basically says you can still dupe in Sandworm, even though it's BCNM was one of the areas which was under the November emergency maintenance. Perhaps laying the trap for another set of bans?

We can now place the taping of this episode at after the reporting of Pandemonium Warden's "defeat". Then, someone just goes off on Square-Enix and their handling of PW: One of the premiere linkshells in the entire game (of all worlds) basically walked out of FFXI and right into WoW because of how badly PW was (supposedly) mucked -- that it was so unkillable that it wasn't worth playing FFXI anymore.

I don't understand one simple thing: Why doesn't the player community just walk away from all the things they don't like and render them so unworkable that Square-Enix must either fix them or remove them from FFXI??

And this gets us to logging hate and Pandemonium Warden. I've already addressed this in numerous comments and in several posts. It's illegal, but one of the roundtable basically put it like this: Astral Flow is a one-hit kill, and logging off is the only way possible to circumvent it.

What, you can't run like Hell at that point? Get out of its radius or bite the big one??

You see, if this is true, shut down ZNM's. All of them. Now.

Reason?? You have now raised the exact place that I said that Square-Enix dare not go. You have, then, said that certain exploits are allowed (in fact, for certain ends, required) and certain are not. You have created a mob which cannot be killed within the Terms of Service at all. I've said on the wiki that I felt that people should just stop playing PW because it was not ever meant to be killed with present knowledge. This takes that to another level -- it can't be killed at all, except under danger of getting suspended or banned.

That's just asking to have your game completely discredited. Aneiro was right on the mark when he talked about the tie-ins between the PW-logout exploit and the dupers.

As far as I am concerned, you cannot, in any way, ban the Salvage dupers and then allow the PW exploit. If you are actually going to validate this "win", then you have to reverse all bannings and suspensions from January 22, 2009.

But then we get to the real question: What is wrong with the communication between the players and Square-Enix? One has to wonder how much Square-Enix even really respects the players... Could they harbor the exact same distrust and resentment I do?? It's possible -- but then why continue FFXI? That gets to the "vote of no-confidence by Square-Enix" discussion from back when I started this.

And then we get back to "What might get their attention and force Square-Enix' hand?" I think the answer is simple, and I intend to start doing it: Public embarrassment of the company, not unlike the announcement of the 18-hour Pandemonium Warden failure. In fact, as I said in Part I, I listened to the first part of this discussion, and basically figured out that what probably got Square-Enix on the ball for these bannings is because of the fact that someone went to a prominent gaming site with lots of advertising and respected in the community, and blew the whistle publicly outside of FFXI. This would be a move which might damage Square-Enix' ability to gain new players, especially when they are getting their asses kicked by WoW because you can't level a job in FFXI to 75 in one week.

What if the outside world knew that half the players in the game were using illegal third-party software with doubly-illegal third-party plug-ins to circumvent the intended means of gaining information (or gaining more than they would otherwise ever be able to)?

What if the outside world knew what Aneiro spoke of shortly thereafter, that Square-Enix decides to be silent about the criteria for bans vs. suspensions vs. warnings vis-a-vis January 22nd because of the players holding them to those criteria in the future... (*Ahem...* You've been seeing this anyway in places like this. Consider the number of people in BluGartr who are completely hosed with the PW "defeat" as well... Again, ban Apathy or reverse the January 22nd bannings and suspensions... They're already in an inconsistency on that end)? The problem with coming out and speaking on this being a detriment to the game because of the players holding them to those words is already happening -- that horse is out of the barn.

(You could even go to the "some people are allowed to use exploits while others are not." motif too, at that point.)

Why would you, if you were considering entering an MMORPG, play FFXI right now if you had no assurances that the game was legitimately being policed, nor that the players gave a damn about the rules until they all QQ after being banned?

(The only reason I'm still playing FFXI is because it's Final Fantasy and I don't want to quit because of the cheating bastards, because they win another player who gives a damn about legitimacy leaving the game.)

I don't think Square-Enix has the fundamental understanding of how close they come to running a sham game here -- just taking our $12.95 a month and having us think the rules are enforced because they throw out the occasional Rafael Palmeiro (one player who got banned on January 22nd had four completed relics) with all the minor-leaguers (the RMT's you hear lumped in every month).

Someone, in the discussion of that the number of downloads of FFXI (through services like Direct2Drive) is going down in the rankings said that part of it might be that the players who might enter have no one to look up to when Square-Enix bans several hundred of the top level players.

Well, why should they be looked up to? They fucking cheated, in case you didn't check. You might even get to the discussion that part of the reason that people aren't coming in to the game in sufficient numbers is that people are finding that it is necessary to cheat to succeed -- and, as I said, the moment that happens, there's no more FFXI, for this very reason. New players won't enter a sham game. And if a linkshell basically cannot function without it's cheating leadership, na na na-na hey-hey-hey goodbye.

Actually, Aneiro brings up a point, in trying to slam Square-Enix, that should be made public and policy: Square-Enix has very high expectations of its player-base, and, when those expectations are not met, they can, with or without exposition of cause, take away your privilege of having an account on the game. I think that is a very reasonable expectation and should, in fact, be demanded of more people in more games. If the games cannot be upheld (economically or otherwise) with this level of expectations, then the games cannot continue.

Then we get to the point of "how many of the temporary bans were, in fact, permanents?". Let's remember, a 72-hour ban is not necessarily a 72-hour ban. That's the last step before banning a person for good. I still think, bluntly, anyone who knew of the duping and used it (at minimum) should be banned.

Are there going to be more bannings? I'd say once a month for the foreseeable. Give this about two more weeks, and I expect another bunch to go down (perhaps not as many and not as prominent) for misconduct. They have to. There's no way they could have gone through even all the Salvage-dupes in 60 days. And what really gets to the problem is that they pretty much have to say how many more get banned for misconduct. That might not be a good thing in your eyes, Aneiro, and you might think they have a deterrent here.

What deterrent? There's no fucking deterrent. There's no deterrent to any action without some degree of force behind it. There's no deterrent to robbing me on the street if I can't kick your ass or call the police and have them jail you. There's no deterrent to any of this without the banhammers in FFXI.

Well, with that, there's a storm brewing, and not one in the game. I gotta get off the computer.

Flamage (well, there is some...) Part 12: LBR Breaks Down the Bannings, Part I

Well, LBR did, with quite a nice amount of speed for them, their LM-17 1/22/09 Limit Breaking News show.  Two and a half hours of it.  I've got that on my PSP MP3 player, and will give comments as I come across them.  One post on this will get WAY too long, so I'll break it down into parts.

Fusionx, about 7 minutes in:  How is it "extremist" to demand that the people who represent the player-base actually legally play the damned game?  How is it "extremist" to demand that those people admitted as banned from the game are removed from all positions of representation?  How is it "extremist" to demand that the game be adjudicated according to the rules, and that those in violation be removed?  I would really like to know.

Oh, by the way, I'll be writing that letter to Square-Enix, and I'll post it here when it's finished and sent -- the only further delay would be finding the proper e-mail addresses for community liaisons and the like at Square-Enix.  Hopefully, between the Flamage series, playing FFXI, and some other projects that a lot of this Duper-illegality junk has pushed back, I can get it done next week.

And, as far as "If you don't want Chin on the site, don't listen to us, we don't care..."  Then I don't want you doing FFXI podcasts, Fusionx!  

Let me put it to you this strongly...  From all the stuff I've read in the last 2 weeks, it really appears as if the player-base has a lot of skeletons in their closet which they don't want Square-Enix to find out about.  Seems to me like you'd much rather see a lot of this left alone.  The more I read from the more players, I begin to wonder if any of you play this game legitimately.

I find your stand utterly fucking reprehensible, but no real surprise given your previous e-mail to me and your vested interest in Chinchilla being more important to you than the legitimacy of the game you purport to represent.  You can expect that letter as soon as I finish it and can get the proper e-mail addresses.

My roommate and I disagree on several subjects (in that she believes Square-Enix could be more responsive to the players and their concerns, for one).  But one thing, if I heard her correctly when we talked on the subject:  The cheaters have nothing to say on the subject.

(Oh, and, by the by, that is the last I will be listening to your programs too, but I want more than that.  I want you (as a podcast) sanctioned.  You want to do this "for you"?  Fine.  No benefits from Square-Enix or from the Podcast Alliance or whatever...)

Elmer (just afterward):  If you aren't in a position to say "Get the Hell out of here!" to the cheaters, then, especially as the person behind JP Button, what position are you in to say anything on the Salvage-dupe subject??

Sorry if that is arrogant to you, but what other conclusion do you wish to draw?  If you aren't cheating and you wish to have a fair and just game, then you want the cheaters the Hell out of there, with no compromise in the situation.

Sonomaa's (from BluGartr) opening statement (after Elmer's):  What you disagree with is exactly right -- the players who did this exactly are on the same level as the gil-farming companies.  I've said this several times.  Square-Enix has ultimate right in determining the manner and amount of their virtual property that they wish to distribute to the players who pay their monthly fees to rent it.  That's it.  Realistically, you could end up discussing the possibility of charging the American players with theft under California law, as I stated before.  But, yes, they are on the same level as the gil-farmers.

There is a point of concern you brought up, and it is valid:  Why'd they wait?  It's clear they knew.  It's exactly the situation I discussed with a commenter in one of the previous articles:  This is clearly a situation that they knew and that was reported, and it was widely known that it was there.  So the question is:  why didn't they do it a year ago?  Didn't they take the tremendous amount of cheating among the high-level players seriously at all?  (This was also something my roommate and I talked about.)

Oh, by the way, anyone who got banned when they didn't know it should be pursuing court cases against the parties who pulled the dupes, and asking Square-Enix for the logs.  That's how you deal with that.  They may not be able to act against Square-Enix, but they certainly have action against those who got them banned without their knowledge, necessarily.

Hyrist:  This might actually finally answer Sonomaa's question as to what got Square-Enix' attention -- not unlike the Pandemonium Warden 18-hour fight, it sounds as if the matter of fact is that someone blew the whistle and publicly began to proclaim it outside the FFXI community.  What this would mean is that this would make Square-Enix look bad in the one realm that they probably take even more seriously than their current players:  Potential future players.

Perhaps if we blow the whistle on a lot of this stuff far and wide and shine the outside world's light of day on what really goes on in Vana'diel, something will get done about it.

Hyrist, Aneiro, and DavyJones (an LBR forum admin) talked about a very interesting point (we're now about 15 minutes in):  The silence from Square-Enix.  That can be taken from several viewpoints:

1) My original viewpoint:  They're just beginning to blow the lid off of massive end-game cheating, and they aren't close to being done banning yet.  I think they need to come out and very publicly condemn the player-base across the board.  I think they really need to understand that, because a lot of the players simply want to be given kewl 1337 shit to lord over everyone else, they need to stomp hard, and if a few eggs get broken to make an omelette...

2) Another viewpoint:  Are we getting to the point of a sham game here?  Are we getting to the point of Major League Baseball, where you essentially have (or at least had) to be under the influence of performance-enhancing steroids to make it?  Are we getting to the point of many professional wrestling storylines, where certain characters are now able to get away with whatever they want, because they have the "juice" or "stroke" from the official channels to make it so?  Are we getting to the point that the game is simply a sham because there is not enough ability to enforce the rules at all, making them effectively null and void?

That's two -- I'm sure you can come up with more.

Actually, DavyJones brings up a point salient to the Pandemonium Warden-Apathy argument:  DavyJones brings up how obvious an act of disbanding (outside of the sole intent of disbanding, which is to break up a party at the end of its usefulness) should be with respect to such an isolated situation as Salvage.  Here's the problem:  What makes that any different than logging out to avoid being attacked by Pandemonium Warden?  The act of disbanding to exploit the duping cheat is no different than the act of logging out to avoid being attacked once the puller of PW, etc., is killed after PW throws Astral Flow.  Both are uses of game mechanics in manners not intended which create an unfair advantage (one through a coding flaw, the other through exploiting the mechanisms of the monster involved), a bannable offense under the rules.

From there, about the 18:30 mark, the discussion begins, with the first round being about whether Square-Enix knew about all this.

My roommate does not like to have her intelligence insulted.  It took her only a few posts to realize that they had to have known.  Come on...  They had to have.

The kicker, then, becomes:  Why now?  Why so harsh??  I said, at the beginning of all this, that I felt the penalties were light - all players involved who knew should've been banned with great prejudice, and there's no reason to believe that there aren't more bans coming, for this and other exploits!

But the key question is why they took so long, and I think I may have come up with the answer above after what I heard from Hyrist.  Someone went quite public in a manner which would've damaged Square-Enix from gaining future players.

You can make the argument that that should not be -- but they already have our $12.95 a month.  If they can't at least make up for attrition with new players, though, they can't sustain the game.

About at 21:40, an interesting question came up vis-a-vis withholding the information:  Do you want it to get "worse" by spreading it further after you've reported it?  Or are you more interested in retaining the "dirty little secret", because you control the game and not Square-Enix, since they need you to pay them enough money to keep going...

And that is about the first 22 minutes.  2 more hours of it to go, when I get around to it...

Well, I have been playing between the flamage again this week...

Fairly important week, too...

Dynamis:  Got a Windurst win on Sunday, and a Jeuno win on Wednesday.  Snow access has been acquired, and we're looking at making a run there come tomorrow.  We'll see, based on availability.

Levels:  Gotten hardcore into Campaigning my DRG to 75 (68 now, probably 69 by the end of tonight).  One more Besieged that I choose to play will probably get my RDM to 59.

Not much else.  Did a Copycat set with a pickup group and got some Destroyers for later.

Flamage Part 11: How many of you even play the game, and not the system...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.  I swear I must be in the middle of Bizarro World here.

I look to the blog and see 11 comments to last night's report to the Special Task Force (demanding an investigation of the Apathy-Remora "win" over Pandemonium Warden, a clear violation of the Terms of Service...)

I responded to most of them, but you might want a look at the comment list yourself, because I don't care to dignify most of these with recopying them here.  But I did want to raise several points which probably should be raised, and all I can say is:  Given what I've heard from these jokers, "Be afraid, be very afraid."

Hogie48 agrees with that it may not have been what Square-Enix intended, but thinks I have a burr up my ass.

He's right on both counts, and the reason (as I said) that I have a burr up my ass is that it appears as if the player-base does not give two damns about actually playing the game with any sense of honor, integrity, or anything else.

Which see a number of these other comments, like this one:

"Idiots who have never even killed Kirin or struggled to do so should not be able to Q.Q like little bitches." -- Brandon

Brandon, then stop me from "Q.Q"-ing, bitch.

Not only that, Brandon, but (as I said in my comment) it would appear to me as if you are all but admitting that the game is unplayable (to you, and to many others) without cheating the system -- that you cannot beat Kirin without violating the rules.  At that point, I would then go back to what I said to Square-Enix:  What exploits are allowed, and what are not?  This is why you don't want to go there:  because it appears that there are many players who cannot play Final Fantasy XI without cheating like that.

And I have to say to them (including you, Brandon, it sounds like from what you are saying):  Go screw around with World of Warcraft.

Maxxthepenguin missed the point of the entire last two weeks when he claimed that Square-Enix could've coded logging out so as not to reset hate, but they didn't.

This would, in fact, constitute a third charge against Apathy, unless you openly wish to state that you don't believe the Salvage-dupers should've been banned - that it was all Square-Enix' fault, as usual...  Right, Maxx??

Xx asks why I have to "be like that"...  Answer:  Because of people like you.

Next comment basically gets to a heart of the matter.

Raen Ryong basically says I'm jealous that someone else has PW drops and I don't.

There is an old truism that many people live by, that the "ends justify the means".  That it doesn't matter what tactics you use, as long as you "win".

Raen:  You are a fucking bastard, and are exposed as such.  I am not jealous as to the PW drops they got, and, not only that, but I would like to believe I demand that any items dropped in the game are won fairly.  You, sir, don't seem to give a shit about fairness, the rules, or integrity.  So I ask you whether you play the game, or game the system...

I go back to the comment I heard someone (and I wish I had at least the nick this person used) on VanaChat the Friday night of FanFest when he/she said half the players in the game cheat.  I reiterate my stand:  Given that, the game has no future and should have no future.  And if people like Raen are going to claim it's all about the drops, all about the status, all about "1337 pwnage!!11111!!111!11!11", then you, like most American gamers, suck.

To Titanss:  No, you don't cross my mind, and I wonder if you have a mind for anything _to_ cross...

Robert clarifies the apparent strategy in his comment, but misses one key point here:

It doesn't matter one whit whether the logging out is necessary or simply a matter "to be safe".  That is _irrelevant to the discussion_.  The fact is they committed an act to gain an unfair advantage which was outside the one stated purpose of logging out:  To leave Final Fantasy XI.  Any purpose within the game itself, outside of departure (which could, essentially, mean any purpose within the game), constitutes a breach of the rules.

And then he asks what I have to consider one of the most ridiculous questions I've ever heard on the Internet:  He asks if I was one of the Salvage-dupers...

I'm not insulted by the question itself, but more of the insult of my intelligence.  The question itself is actually an off-shoot of something I said earlier:  The actions of the Salvage-dupers bring into question the integrity of every high-level player in the game, _including me_.

But how anyone who could read this blog come up with that question with any degree of intelligence is beyond my personal level of comprehension.

Onward to Stephanie:  So when you accidentally agg something which will kill you and cannot zone, she gives two options:

a) Sleep it and log out.

b) Take it like a man and die.

(Of course, she fails to understand the possibility of sleeping it and running and hope it triggers the anti-MPK situation, but that might even be a violation of the rules.)

The answer is simple:  You get a dirt nap.  Get raised or home-pointed.  Again, there is ONE purpose to logging out -- to leave.  Any other action can be stated as a breach of the rules and actionable as such.

Maybe it's time for Square-Enix to get real nasty and turn Garlaige Citadel into Garlaige Shit-a-del again, because it can no longer assume the players are going to play honestly.  You are not allowed to leave the game just because you got an inconvenient pull.  I got one today in Jugner in the Shadowrealm as I was running back from triggering the questionnaire in Dancers in Distress (one of the new WotG missions)...  I ate my 2400-point drop like a man.  Got another one farming in the promies today.  Ate that one too, with frustration.

If you always have to win, it doesn't make the victory worth anything.  If you aren't willing to actually work within the system, the win becomes a cheat.  Perhaps that's why people can't play fairly anymore:  We've become so used, as gamers, as needing this cheat or that hack or the other exploit that we truly can't play the game anymore.

Stephanie:  The Salvage-dupes were "standard game knowledge" -- a "dirty little secret" the end-gamers had (even though my roommate is correct that it could not have been completely absent any knowledge by Square-Enix...) to exploit the shitty drop rates.

Logging out for any other purpose than leaving the game (if for five minutes or five years) is NOT using the game mechanic as intended, and using it for an advantage in-game is ILLEGAL.

Brent:  The answer to your first question has been addressed above several times:  Since the action is outside the purpose of the game mechanic:  Yes, they should be punished, and banned if that's what it calls for.  They broke the rules by manipulating a game mechanic to create an unfair advantage (that one commenter has said they may not have even needed!!!).

If you can't get that clear, then I question how many such things you've exploited over the course of time.

And then you flame the salvage-dupers, and then praise Apathy for "Players adapt, and that's what they did."??  You're trying to have it both ways, and I'm not falling for that garbage.  One or the other -- you can't praise these guys and dump on the dupers.  They're essentially the same thing -- why does one abuse and the other "adapt"?

Logging to clear hate is an unfair advantage and an exploit of PW's code on top of it (that clearing all hate from PW stops all attacks from it until new hate is instituted).

ineedproof123456 only can count to 6, but basically gives a nice demonstration of administrative double-talk.  They let this stand, he should almost go to work for Square-Enix.

Paul is trying to rewrite history, I fear, so I will spare him the further embarrassment.

----------

Several things are becoming quite clear:

1) Much of the player-base does not know how to kill anything above a worm fairly.

2) The ends, clearly, justify the means for most of these jokers.

and 3) The only reason I'm still playing FFXI is to spite these idiots.  I clearly cannot enjoy the game with them around, but I'll still be there to be a thorn in their sides.

So, Square-Enix: Logging Hate is Legal AND Legitimate?? We need to talk...

(I could've put this as a "Flamage Part 11", but part of the reason I didn't is that the bulk of this post is going to the Special Task Force.)

In light of the actions of the Special Task Force and other disciplinary entities in the last two weeks, I can only say that I have been encouraged that steps may finally be taken to curtail high-end player abuse of the game...

... that is, until I found the official POL website last night, and the most recent article thereon.

(As of about 5:30 PM PST on February 5, it still is the most recent story -- a link to the Allakazham article on the defeat of Pandemonium Warden by the Apathy linkshell on Remora.)

I am calling for an investigation of this "victory" as a matter of misconduct by the Special Task Force.  I believe the Apathy linkshell (those members who took part in this fight) should be penalized under "Actions Which Might Result in an Unfair Advantage" -- as stated in Article Q12652 in your Q&A on your official site.

The specific charge against the "victors" is the following, and I quote from your site:

"[Game Exploits]

Players who take advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play may have their account suspended and all items or experience obtained through those means confiscated."

I am specifically referring to the concept of what has become called "logging hate".  My understanding of it is as follows:

At three points in the final Pandemonium Warden fight, PW puts out a series of avatars and then casts Astral Flow (the summoner 2-hour).  If the Blood Pacts are then allowed to resolve, everyone wipes and the fight fails.

So, apparently, what Apathy did then was:

-- One person, probably a Red Mage (almost certainly a PLD/RDM, probably), casts Area of Effect Damage over Time spells to gain massive emnity on Pandemonium Warden and all the avatars in play.

-- Said player then runs like Hell.  Not a problem to this point -- this often happens in Dynamis.

-- Here's the problem:  All other players then log out of the game, by pre-arranged agreement.

-- The player being chased by the mob of monsters dies, sacrificing himself to allow the party the needed time to log out.  Logging out clears the list of all players in the fight with emnity to Pandemonium Warden.  With no remaining players alive with emnity to Pandemonium Warden, the NM will go back to his spawn point and, essentially, stop.  No further aggressive action will be taken until someone is aggressive to it.  During this time, everyone else logs back in (the timeframe I heard was 2 minutes), and the sacrificial lamb is raised and healed.

Repeat as needed to avoid Astral Flow wiping the entire linkshell.

The use of logging out to avoid Astral Flow and to clear all emnity to Pandemonium Warden is the use of a game mechanic (logging out) not intended as a means of normal game play.

There is only one normal game-play use of logging out:  to leave Final Fantasy XI.  The use of logging out to clear hate, as well as to force Pandemonium Warden to cease attacking, is not only an exploitation of the code of logging out, but also of the code of the specific traits of Pandemonium Warden (in that it ceases all attacks and will not attack further, once it's emnity list is clear, until new emnity is made against it).

This action is a clear violation of the rules against Game Exploits, quoted above.

Two weeks ago, you took the strongest action yet against long-time players who have been cheating the system.  The posting of this article to the official FFXI website gives not only legality to this strategy, but legitimacy as well.

That cannot be allowed to stand.

Not only is the strategy illegal, by your own statements in your Q&A (unless you really want to try to claim there are other normal game-play uses of logging out of the game -- and I would like to hear them now if there are!!), but the posting of the "victory" on the official site gives the strategy legitimacy (something not even the Kraken Club DRK strategy had when Absolute Virtue was made a 2-hour situation).

The article must come down.  The Special Task Force needs to investigate this.  The "champions", as it were, need to be suspended, if not banned.

Failure to do so will leave players with a question which I am certain you do not want them to have.  That question being:  Since, if this strategy is allowed, Square-Enix allows and encourages the use of only those exploits which they CHOOSE to have allowed, which exploits are allowed and which are not?

If you want legitimacy regarding keeping the game fair, that is a question you must avoid at all cost.  Investigate this "victory".

(On edit:  And for those who don't think I'm serious -- and this isn't the last e-mail I'm running to SE damned soon, this was sent to the STF from the Service and Support link (with small editing for clarity and to get it down to space...  6:21 PM PST 2/5/09)

Flamage (?) Part 10: Aneiro Weighs In

Let's just say that I'm not sure if this is going to be flamage, but it does raise some other points I've wanted to address since all the crap went down on my 40th birthday with the Salvage-dupe banhammers.

Aneiro is the main host of Limit Break Radio, and I've tried to come across the website on a number of occasions since to see if any of the LBR sorts were caught up in it (and, if any were, please show me the source and they get the barrels too). Anyhoo, his statement on the January 22nd bannings and the reactions (probably more than a couple pointed to me!) he had are on the front page at http://www.LimitBreakRadio.com .

So, with that, getting past the actual news rehash:

"Since that time, just under a week as passed and we here at Limit Break Radio have been inundated with e-mails, PMs, Skype messages and /tells asking our opinions on the matter. So, before any of you out there consider asking, rest assured we do have opinions, we will express them, don’t worry. And to those that are wondering: no, none of the LBR crew were banned, thanks for the concern."

You're welcome, Aneiro.

I don't think you took too kindly to people asking, but blame the caliber of player for that one, Aneiro. And then take into account what I said to Steak of Pet Food Alpha in a conversation we had in e-mail last week about my vitriol over Chinchilla:

"This is important because, as a member podcast of the Radio XI Podcast Alliance (and given credit as such by Square-Enix, in whatever form you are (Premiere, Community, etc.)), you represent the player-base. Hence, you represent me. It's like Charles Barkley: He can claim not to have been a role model all he wants, but his stature as an NBA player (even now, as a former one) makes him one and subjects him to the relevant criticism when it is warranted."

Especially with all the work you've done, Aneiro, you've gained a great deal of influence and leadership in the FFXI player community, and are recognized as such. But with that influence comes a responsibility above and beyond that of the average player, and that, first and foremost, includes upholding the rules, in play and in your travels within the podcast community and the like.

You represent us, Aneiro. So does PFA and all the others. That's why I am dismayed over what I've seen.

Aneiro again:

"Firstly, I feel compelled to say RELAX! Some of you are making far too big a deal out of this. Look, I will grant you that this is a serious issue, and I’m in no way trying to understate the Jan 22nd banning significance, but some of you are acting like this is the end of Final Fantasy XI. It isn’t. The game will continue, most likely for a good long time. Some are acting like this is the greatest thing to ever happen to FFXI and use it as an excuse to take pot shots at the people who were once your comrades. Neither attitude is appropriate here guys."

I would expect that some of my posts have been getting over to you guys as ROTFLMAOBBQWTF material. I do believe this could be the end of FFXI, if it's not addressed appropriately (as a vote of no-confidence perhaps either way between the players and Square-Enix...). I mean, one of the things which my roommate and I talked about vis-a-vis stuff on this blog for about an hour-plus last night was her belief that, though the cheaters have little to say on the matter, Square-Enix needs to take a look at a lot of these things a lot more seriously and quickly.

But the game will only continue if there's a point to continue it -- economically or morally. My roommate was right again to state that, though Square-Enix owns the game, we do pay to rent the virtual property which is our characters, gear, and gil. My question, especially with the caliber of players banned is whether the game could survive without the cheaters. I fear the answer is no. I really do.

I do believe it's the best thing to happen (if there are enough world-wide players to allow the game to financially survive in this world economy) because I do openly begin to wonder, given the attitudes I've heard in places like BG and some of the banned's blogs, how many players actually do play this game legitimately. And, as my roommate told me last night, those are the players who need to be heard from, not those who decide to hate the drop-rates and effectively hack the game.

Aneiro again:

"To those that were banned:

You were cheating. You got caught. The mature thing to do is to accept your consequence and move on. Either start all over again from level 1 or pack up your FFXI blog, forum subscriptions, and podcast collection and get some sun. I don’t mean to sound flippant towards the people in this situation, but I also have very little sympathy as well. It’s what happens when you cheat. Learn this lesson now, for it will serve you well in the future."

I have very strong concerns about what is to happen to the youth who feel so punk-ish and entitled these days when TSHTF absolutely. I don't think they will go quietly, and I think they will feel absolute entitlement to try to continue the party one more night... one more day... one more week, month, year...

And that's the type of attitude you see with some of that. My only problem with you is saying they should be allowed to start over. No. They forfeited THAT privilege too. One of the real problems with RMT is not forcing through that a ban on a player should be a ban on the _player_, not just all the characters that player holds at the time of the ban. And the saddest part of that is: This is almost trivial to do. Find the credit card linked to the account, lock out all cards tied to the Social Security/Tax Identification/similar number that card uses.

They could do a lot better to actually ban the PLAYER, not just the characters, in RMT and in this case.

Aneiro continues to people like me:

"To those who were not banned:

Get off your damned high horse! You can be happy that the game is now more fair and that punishment has been dealt to those who chose to do wrong, but also realize that these are people with real emotions. These aren’t RMT, although some of you will inevitably say that there’s no difference between the damage RMTs do and the damage these players did. But there is a crucial difference. When a RMT is banned one can assume that to be a punishment on the company as opposed to the user. Look, I understand the resentment and frustration on the part of rule abiding players and I even said that it’s difficult to empathize with those that were banned, but we cannot dehumanize them either. Even a banned player deserves to be treated like a human being."

I don't think the punishments have been dealt to those who chose to do wrong. I think just the first 950 or so such punishments. My roommate agreed with me last night that there will probably be upwards of several thousand more once the next several rounds of banhammers fall out of the sky.

As I've said before, there is very little difference (especially in the age of account-selling) between a duper like this and RMT. The only way you could make the argument you make above, Aneiro, is to basically dehumanize the entirety of the users in the RMT company. At that point, I redouble my call (if you're going to look at this as actions on a company) for Square-Enix to sue the living crap out of RMT for trademark infringement, fraud, and God knows what else.

The problem is much the same way that people get treated as criminals -- they get dehumanized as part of their punishment, and then, frankly, society doesn't want most of them back (and makes no secret of saying so -- of course, "wanting them back" implies they were ever wanted in the first place). I mean, frankly, if we are to truly condemn their actions and not want them in the game, then they can find other such circles to be treated that way. They lost that privilege as well, once they got banned.

Aneiro, after he mentioned that a possible Limit Breaking News on the bannings was possible sometime in the near future -- and, if not, the bannings would be discussed in a February/early-March episode of LBR, probably:

"Look, we are a community. Look at that word: community. See that word that is part of community? No? Here, I’ll help: commUNITY. Yes, unity. For any community to survive we have to hold each other up and keep each other strong. If I have learned anything in the last several years, it’s that divisiveness is no solution to conflict. A variety of opinions and ideas is great! There is nothing better! But rabble rousing undermines the spirit of true debate."

I'm sorry, Aneiro, but that might be where we part company.

Much as in several other fan-landscapes (there isn't enough unity to call it a fan_base_) I've been in, there's little to no unity in the FFXI player community. Perhaps that's something people might want to look in to.

But whether it's US vs. Japan vs. Europe...

Whether it's one HNMLS vs. another...

Whether it's the top levels of players vs. even the next level down (much less the "noobs")...

And on and on and on...

There is no unity in the FFXI community. To think there is ignores significant cultural, play-style, and ethical differences between segments of the player community.

I don't want to "hold up" and "keep strong" people who are openly and abjectly undermining the game for the rest of us for their own benefit. I quit my server for that reason, Aneiro. If there's a virus in the body, get rid of it, if you can. If it consumes enough of the body (and is strong enough), the body will die.

High-level player misconduct, in my opinion, is such a fatally strong virus against FFXI.

A frustrating, yet fruitful Sunday...

Oh, man.... Another rigged Super Bowl, more BS for my roommate to deal with...

And I almost screwed someone out of a million gil (in our Dynamis LS, you are still declared "on AF" even if you lose the bid for the right to lot AF, else I would've won a Jadeshell (You can't lot on "Big Money" in our LS if you are "on AF", hence, a bid of any kind on AF disqualifies you from Big Money, even if the bid loses... Hmmm...)... Boy, that was a day... I'll have to talk to Kiana on that one, sounds counter-intuitive, though I understand the reasoning. (People were bidding just to screw each other out of points.)

But, we did win both Dynamis-Windurst (1/1, 2 deaths) AND Fire in the Hole (1/2 on that one). So onward with WotG Bastok stuff.

===

And I also had a long talk with my roommate. She may special-guest on this blog soon, as we talked about some of the issues I've raised here on the Salvage-dupers. She agrees with some, disagrees with others, but not necessarily in a way most of you might hope.

No promises, but you may see a special-guest blog post in the near future. MAY see one...