Friday, April 16, 2010

People are not going to like what I just did...

Frankly, though, I don't feel I had a choice.

After what I learned yesterday, I felt I was down to, logistically, three options:

1) Abandon the principles completely, and basically come down to the level of everyone else. The anger I hold for most of the other players on FFXI, though, would lead to criminal action, in that respect.

2) Leave the game, and the same people win who would've won if I left 15 months ago.

3) What I did -- I reported myself to the Special Task Force and asked them to get a look to make sure that nothing illegal happened.

If I had to guess, I'm not sure I can say I'm not bannable.

Here's the letter:

---

I severely doubt that you will believe that this is me, especially when you hear my request.

This is Starcade, soon to be formerly of Siren (and perhaps formerly of Vana'diel, depending on what is found or whatever).

Yesterday (4/15/10), I received word that a departed member of our linkshell (Keichan, when he was on Siren), who aided me in an immense number of missions and assaults and the like, was one of the most prominent Salvage banned back in January of 2009 (Kaeko).

First off, I have a _SEVERE_ problem understanding why any player banned from the game is allowed to continue with alternate characters. Not only does this effectively nullify the ban, but, as most have stated, they still have access to a number of other exploits and the like, and most claim (with reason) that they can advance back to their former status much faster than a fair player ever could.

To this latter end: I must now request an investigation of my own account, as to whether actions taken either by myself or by Keichan may have gained unfair, illegal, and bannable advantage over the time we were working together. I cannot give a specific situation, but I have grave suspicion that violations of the Terms of Service may have occurred, with or without my knowledge, during the time we worked together.

I will continue to play until such is completed, but, after what I learned, I have to ask to have my own situation looked at to ensure that I'm still clean.

----

I already have a "we need to talk" situation from Kimiko, and I will try to be on tonight to deal with it.

But anyone who thinks this is a joke can go laugh elsewhere. You don't want me to play as a dirty player. I'll be put in jail for what I would want to do to some of you motherfuckers.

9 comments:

Volkai said...

I could be mistaken, but I believe they do account bans, not player bans, which is why it's possible to return.

The loss of all the time and effort put into a single character is not insignificant, and is not without meaning.

Starcade, now from Siren said...

When the game first began, one could probably see that argument.

There have been numerous discussions, however, about the utter speed with which players have been able to run 1-75 with abusive and illegal constructs. (In fact, one of the discussions on the VanaFest coverage was talking about how people could actually, under certain circumstances, do it in about 1 real-life week.)

I also point you to the BluGartr comment I posted end of last year from SathFenrir, who stated the popular opinion:

" And after getting banned most of them re-accomplished more in FFXI than most of the QQers

I'm fine with getting banned. I did a relic from scratch on a lv1 new character in 9 months, I've beat FFXI up, down, and sideways. Bring on FFXIV.
"

It is players like this which make me want to commit a terrorist attack on Vana'diel itself.

The whole point, and why I eventually felt I HAD TO alert the STF to have them investigate me, is that the whole thing of account vs. player bans is bullshit. What do you accomplish, in that realm, with attitudes the likes of SathFenrir's all over Vana'diel?

rdmrules said...

You befriended a person, unaware of their past. This must mean you two mutually got along, yet now you're holding their actions in a *game* as offences of higher priority then the personality of a person you got to know. Forgive and forget?

Its a game. Yes, other people play and what Kaeko did effected other peoples game lives, GAME lives. I cannot stress enough how you should conciser seeing the bigger picture of how insignificant Salvage dupes should be in everyones lives.

Kaeko then spent time out of their life to try and understand your view, reasoning's and even help you along in the game - yet you conciser all this irrelevant just because of a sin in a game.

Everyone does things their not proud of in their lives, but for anyone to have friends you have to forgive past sins and move on. Everyone would eventually be sat in a room alone if they never forgave others, and seriously, this was a felony *in a game*.

Starcade, now from Siren said...

rdmrules:

How long have you been reading my blog? Or did you start off of Kaeko's post?

(Not saying that to flame. This time, it's a serious question.)

I have said this even as recently (before all this) as my New Year's post about the cheaters -- ban the PLAYER, not just the character or account, or NOTHING changes.

This is why I posted the thing from SathFenrir and his bleating again in this comment section. The amount of time, especially if you have a bunch of abusive helpers around you (by that, I mean the more abusive, the faster the process becomes), the amount of actual time you lose by being banned is minimized.

So, as I have said again: He never should've been allowed in that position, because I can't trust that his workings with me (or with anyone else, for that matter) are valid and above-table, with the strict exception of if Square-Enix and the STF deliberately (and fraudulently) turn their back.

When I pay my $12.95/mo, I expect a degree of policing of the game (dictatorial if necessary) to keep some degree of game balance -- which we all know does NOT exist.

I would suggest, if you have the time, to read more of the backstory of a number of the posts I made after January 22, 2009. I don't think you commit these acts unless it's within you to do so -- and I don't believe, in any respect, that you would wish me the same latitude.

I'll ask you the same question: If he's allowed to return, why ban him at all??

Volkai said...

For me, it comes down to this: You can do anything as long as you can pay the price.

The price for cheating is you lose your account.

The price for doing so at the expense of other players is you lose the respect of the community.

To my knowledge, Kaeko has never violated the TOS with malicious intent towards other players, which is part of why he made it through the salvage bans with a (relatively) clean reputation.

This is also why players using Windower is completely insignificant, particularly when compared to players using poshacks. Windower is rarely used with the intent of gaining an unfair advantage of other players (though the same can not be said for some apps, that is a separate matter), while poshacking is to my knowledge mainly seen put to use claiming NM pops before anyone else has a chance to.




As for Sath's comment... if someone keeps cheating, they'll keep getting banned. That goes for legit players as much as it does for RMTs.


And it's within everyone to cheat. Every person can rise to the greatest heights or fall to the darkest depths. It's not what you can do that matters, and it's not only what you have done that matters, it's what you choose to do now and in the future that matters most.


If you are a person that does not believe in giving second chances, in offering forgiveness of the wrongs someone may have committed in the past, then I suspect it may have been a mistake for me to come here and post my comments.

Starcade, now from Siren said...

Volkai: (Sorry, I approved one of the other two comments you wanted me to approve, and can't find it for the moment, so I'm looking and picking off some of the rest of it.)

The price for cheating is you lose your account.

... if they determine that they want to declare that you cheated. Again, a lot of the different things they've allowed appear to indicate otherwise, even though those actions fully appear to be violations.

I question Square-Enix' willingness to do as you state.

The price for doing so at the expense of other players is you lose the respect of the community.

Demostratably false, considering not only podcasters but prominent contributors, etc.

Here's the point I don't think many get: When you commit acts outside the ToS, you are doing those acts at the expense of other players who either won't or can't use those same tools.

This is also why players using Windower is completely insignificant, particularly when compared to players using poshacks. Windower is rarely used with the intent of gaining an unfair advantage of other players (though the same can not be said for some apps, that is a separate matter), while poshacking is to my knowledge mainly seen put to use claiming NM pops before anyone else has a chance to.

The problem I have with Windower, at least as I see it, is that it grants so much information that it would take so much extra time and macros, etc. to gather, that it gives the Windower-user a significant advantage over a first-party client-player.

To KNOW when that player's Refresh is going to wear off can be VITAL to a RDM.

To KNOW how much TP your SAM has can be VITAL to a Skillchain to win the fight.

I could go on and on.

That's information that can be available, but Windower gives it to great advantage to those who use it, and their apps.

As for Sath's comment... if someone keeps cheating, they'll keep getting banned. That goes for legit players as much as it does for RMTs.

I wish I had your faith in Square-Enix to do that. I really do. I've told a Senior GM the night I left Leviathan the first time that I don't have that faith.

If you are a person that does not believe in giving second chances, in offering forgiveness of the wrongs someone may have committed in the past, then I suspect it may have been a mistake for me to come here and post my comments.

Well, I disagree, except that I think you fail to realize that the concept of forgiveness and second chances only really applies to those desirable enough to the society in the first place (which was why I gave the Michael Vick comparison in another post's comment to you). If we're going to believe in it, give it to everybody or no one. And I don't think we're going to give it to everybody, frankly.

Because Square-Enix has been so capricious about enforcing the rules, shouldn't it say something when a prominent player finally does get the axe?

Or 900 of them??

Just a thought...

Volkai said...

"To KNOW when that player's Refresh is going to wear off can be VITAL to a RDM.

To KNOW how much TP your SAM has can be VITAL to a Skillchain to win the fight."

You don't need Windower for either of these. An experienced, Windower-free RDM can know when Refresh will wear off on any player from experience. And if not from experience, then from counting minutes on the in-game clock.

As for knowing how much TP a SAM has, this is why TP Call macros exist.

/p {Ready to begin skillchain!}

Easy as that.


Windower plugins, in both of these cases, add convenience. They are not vital to any player who does not through laziness allow them to become so.

Many do allow them to become so, which is no great problem... until they find themselves playing on PS2 or 360 instead of PC. Then it is they who suffer... and, one would hope, learn not to rely on such things. (It is possible to utilize and not rely upon them, I would think.)


"I think you fail to realize that the concept of forgiveness and second chances only really applies to those desirable enough to the society in the first place"

Who are you to determine who is desirable enough to the society in the first place? Who am I to determine that?

"If we're going to believe in it, give it to everybody or no one. And I don't think we're going to give it to everybody, frankly."
And on this, we agree. My decision is, give it to everybody. Everybody deserves a second chance, if they're willing to ask for it.




"When you commit acts outside the ToS, you are doing those acts at the expense of other players who either won't or can't use those same tools."

This is the root of our disagreement on these issues, I think. Going outside the restrictions of the ToS does not necessarily cause harm to other players. Therefore it is not inherently at their expense or to their detriment.

Going outside the restriction of the ToS does necessarily put you in danger of being reprimanded or banned by SE. That doesn't mean you will, it means you could be.


The big thing about 3rd-party tools is this: without them, it is much more difficult to act towards the detriment of other players. With them, you can do so much more easily... but that doesn't mean you will.

A 3rd-party tool is just that, a tool. SE has given us forks with which to eat steak. It's difficult, but delicious. Windower is a knife. The knife makes eating steak a bit easier, but it's not something we couldn't do before. The knife is not an unfair advantage because this is not an eating contest, it's simply a meal. Some people compete with each other to see who can eat the most the fastest anyways -- but they're the ones with stomach aches at the end, too. A person with a knife could use it to stab someone, but most people don't. And when someone does, their plate and silverware (and food) gets taken away from them. They can go get a new steak if they want, sure, but they'll have to start over on it.

Starcade, now from Siren said...

The problem, though, is no the information itself -- it's the way in which the information is presented, in a way which grants the player more immediate information than Square-Enix intended them to.

Again, if this were otherwise, why hasn't Square-Enix either allowed Windower or even made all of it's effects first-party?

Players have become lazy because of the conveniences this _illegal_ piece of software provide.

Who are you to determine who is desirable enough to the society in the first place? Who am I to determine that?

You miss the point -- there are enough who believe they ARE those to so determine...

And that can determine how much those so determined (one way or the other) can get away with.

Anyone not think that Ben Worthlessburger isn't going to be traded to someone, just because he can throw the ball and has two rings?

Never mind that his daddy never taught him "No."

This is the root of our disagreement on these issues, I think. Going outside the restrictions of the ToS does not necessarily cause harm to other players. Therefore it is not inherently at their expense or to their detriment.

I think it is the root of our disagreement, because, as a matter of definition, is DOES necessarily cause harm to other players.

Give you an example: Abyssite/Maw-Gate. If the simple acquisition of gear/items/etc. by one person would not impact the game by that person's stature (in what he or she can do, etc.) in the game, I think I could see your position more readily.

The problem is, that does impact it -- greatly! It not only impacts players who might not be able to access the content, but it also impacts the players who can.

To me, it's not only theft of the items, but theft of the access they are not entitled to. And both impact the other players.

Volkai said...

"...why hasn't Square-Enix either allowed Windower or even made all of it's effects first-party?"

Now that... that is a very good question. If you ever find out the answer, I'd love to know.

(For that matter, Aikar probably would, too.)


The data that many windower plugins utilize is sent from the server, and simply not utilized by the UI. If it's possible to put it to good use without ruining the game for everyone (which Windower shows it is), then why, I must ask, was I not given the ability to utilize from day one on my PS2?

And I know first-hand Windower shows it's possible to put that information to good use without ruining the game for everyone because I played on solely on PS2 until two years ago and my experience was not ruined by other players using Windower.